The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum-Old B string sound (2024)

Tony

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tonguy wrote: ↑

Sep 23, 2021

My first thought when you say a lighter gauge B string sounds a little better is that the heavier gauge string might be binding or not seating properly in an improperly cut nut slot. What happens if you move the B-string over to the G-string slot? You could try loosening the G and B, move the G over on top of the D temporarily so it's out of the way, and then move the B string from the B nut slot over to the G nut slot and tune to pitch (B). Does it sound better in that nut slot? If so, It could be the B string nut slot that might need a little touch-up with a slotting file. You could also take both the G-string and B-string out of their stringholes in the bridge and put the B string where the G would go both in the bridge and up at the nut, tune that string up to B and see if it sounds better using the G-string stringhole, saddle position, and nut slot.

Thanks for that tip. I tried it but not much discernible difference. Also when I capo up the fretboard I don't hear any improvement so I am ruling out the nut.
I think a trip to my luthier is in order. I'm getting through so many sets of strings trying out this and that.

RogerHaggstrom wrote: ↑

Sep 24, 2021

Check the bridge plate for the b-string, if it's worn around the string pin hole the volume will be lower.

Thanks - I'll probably leave that to my luthier as I'm running out of ideas now.

mindhorn wrote: ↑

Sep 24, 2021

Using the built in tuner. It tells me that the B string is slightly sharp at the 12th fret. All the other strings check out OK.
I'm thinking that the B string saddle contact point is too far forward. And resting on the slant of the compensated bit rather than back toward the tail of the saddle.
Maybe it's blunting the sound a bit as well as throwing out the intonation?
I've got another saddle for it. Perhaps it's worth taking a punt on yet another set of strings to try it out.

You don't have to scrap the strings to put a new saddle in, just loosen the strings and put them aside. It may take some pulling on them to get the old one out and the new one in, but it won't hurt them. Then you can check the bridge plate at the same time. And take pictures while you're in there, you can learn a lot by looking at the inside of your guitar. You might also want to test the truss rod to make sure it works and the relief to see if it needs adjusting. I have had strings go dead with a 1/8 turn of the truss rod that was not necessary (actually most of them). A good signal to put things back the way they were. When testing a truss rod I start by a 1/8 turn to loosen it, just in case it is already too tight. Good Luck. You have a nice guitar, I hope you can work this out. A picture of the saddle would be also help, is it low on the treble side, like it was lowered?

mlabors3107 wrote: ↑

Sep 26, 2021

mindhorn wrote: ↑

Sep 24, 2021

Using the built in tuner. It tells me that the B string is slightly sharp at the 12th fret. All the other strings check out OK.
I'm thinking that the B string saddle contact point is too far forward. And resting on the slant of the compensated bit rather than back toward the tail of the saddle.
Maybe it's blunting the sound a bit as well as throwing out the intonation?
I've got another saddle for it. Perhaps it's worth taking a punt on yet another set of strings to try it out.

You don't have to scrap the strings to put a new saddle in, just loosen the strings and put them aside. It may take some pulling on them to get the old one out and the new one in, but it won't hurt them. Then you can check the bridge plate at the same time. And take pictures while you're in there, you can learn a lot by looking at the inside of your guitar. You might also want to test the truss rod to make sure it works and the relief to see if it needs adjusting. I have had strings go dead with a 1/8 turn of the truss rod that was not necessary (actually most of them). A good signal to put things back the way they were. When testing a truss rod I start by a 1/8 turn to loosen it, just in case it is already too tight. Good Luck. You have a nice guitar, I hope you can work this out. A picture of the saddle would be also help, is it low on the treble side, like it was lowered?

The saddle is pretty high. But the action is great on it. I'm so reticent to do anything on it because it's otherwise perfect.
It's pretty much brand new too.
I don't understand how the other strings are totally fine but just the B is muted.
I've think I've eliminated the nut because it's the same with a capo. All I've got left is the saddle as a possible source.
Unless there's a defect on the bridge plate, but that seems unlikely.
It could be a high part of an upper fret I guess. But it's weird that it would only affect the B string. And there's no buzz sound per se just this strange muted sound.
Its as if the B string has been strung with a flatwound jazz string. It's totally out of character with all the other strings.

So an update. I'd noticed a slight perceivable improvement on the B string below and above the 5th fret.
Thought I'd add a little relief to the truss rod to see if this might help. It was stiff but I gave it an 1/8th of a turn lefty.
Boom! The whole guitar burst into life. B string drastically sounding so much better, perhaps just barely perceivably less distinct at the 5th fret.
The strings feels looser than they did before. Easier to play. Guitar sounds louder and less pinched. Bass E is 2.5mm at the 12th fret and I'll take that!
My conclusion from all of this is that:

• This is a new guitar that was still very stiff and needed playing in, with maybe just a minor tweak needed.
• The problem may have eventually gone away as the guitar settled and stretched.
• Guitar problems are not an exact science and are made of wood.

Going to play the b'jesus out of it as I think it will settle in nicely now. Thanks very much for all the advice. Panic over.

mindhorn wrote: ↑

Sep 26, 2021

So an update. I'd noticed a slight perceivable improvement on the B string below and above the 5th fret.
Thought I'd add a little relief to the truss rod to see if this might help. It was stiff but I gave it an 1/8th of a turn lefty.
Boom! The whole guitar burst into life. B string drastically sounding so much better, perhaps just barely perceivably less distinct at the 5th fret.
The strings feels looser than they did before. Easier to play. Guitar sounds louder and less pinched. Bass E is 2.5mm at the 12th fret and I'll take that!
My conclusion from all of this is that:

• This is a new guitar that was still very stiff and needed playing in, with maybe just a minor tweak needed.
• The problem may have eventually gone away as the guitar settled and stretched.
• Guitar problems are not an exact science and are made of wood.

Going to play the b'jesus out of it as I think it will settle in nicely now. Thanks very much for all the advice. Panic over.

Glad you got it figure out. The truss rod can affect a lot of things, not just relief. Always worth it to check it out.

I don't understand how the other strings are totally fine but just the B is muted.

It is the canary in a coal mine. The B string has the least tension, and is most likely to to exhibit odd or weak sound. In addition, it is most sensitive to the shaping of the top of the saddle and the nut slot. Part of this is due to the bending stiffness at the nut and saddle, and is one reason going to a lighter gauge may help.
Some luthiers will evaluate guitars based on how strong the B string is. If it is good, it often means that the guitar has good response overall.

Arnoldgtr wrote: ↑

Sep 27, 2021

I don't understand how the other strings are totally fine but just the B is muted.

It is the canary in a coal mine. The B string has the least tension, and is most likely to to exhibit odd or weak sound. In addition, it is most sensitive to the shaping of the top of the saddle and the nut slot. Part of this is due to the bending stiffness at the nut and saddle, and is one reason going to a lighter gauge may help.
Some luthiers will evaluate guitars based on how strong the B string is. If it is good, it often means that the guitar has good response overall.

Fascinating stuff. I do find that my Martins B string sound is superior compared to this guitar. But it's beaten hands down by the overall playability of the Faith. The Faith's action for example is low from the Factory but with a high saddle. My Road Series Martin was high from the Factory but with not much extra saddle showing.

Arnoldgtr wrote: ↑

Sep 27, 2021

I don't understand how the other strings are totally fine but just the B is muted.

It is the canary in a coal mine. The B string has the least tension, and is most likely to to exhibit odd or weak sound. In addition, it is most sensitive to the shaping of the top of the saddle and the nut slot. Part of this is due to the bending stiffness at the nut and saddle, and is one reason going to a lighter gauge may help.
Some luthiers will evaluate guitars based on how strong the B string is. If it is good, it often means that the guitar has good response overall.

Thanks for this explanation, and for sharing some of you knowledge.

Arnoldgtr wrote: ↑

Sep 27, 2021

I don't understand how the other strings are totally fine but just the B is muted.

It is the canary in a coal mine. The B string has the least tension, and is most likely to to exhibit odd or weak sound. In addition, it is most sensitive to the shaping of the top of the saddle and the nut slot. Part of this is due to the bending stiffness at the nut and saddle, and is one reason going to a lighter gauge may help.
Some luthiers will evaluate guitars based on how strong the B string is. If it is good, it often means that the guitar has good response overall.

Yes many thanks for sharing this.
Oddly enough since I loosened the truss rod 1/8th of a turn (which drastically improved things) I have noticed a slowly improving tone of the B string as time has gone by.
I can't fathom why that must be happening and can only put it down to the guitar being new and starting to settle a bit.
I'm holding off going to my brilliant local luthier for now to see how it develops.